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PRIDE for sale
By Stephan | December 4, 2006
Well I dont have detailed access to Wrestling Observer, I came across this on the Underground, a thread smartly enough called “The Dream is Over: PRIDE for sale”.
From the latest Wrestling Observer Newsletter (http://www.wrestlingobserver.com):
“According to several different sources in both Japan and the United States, Dream Stage Entertainment has talked with various groups about selling the Pride Fighting Championships. Most of the prospective buyers are outside the country. Among them are a group from South Korea, as well as several different U.S. groups. It is believed WWE was approached and it is known UFC has been approached.
….
It’s really a shame, because Dream Stage Entertainment elevated the quality of MMA…to an incredible degree….All of this stems from losing the Fuji Network deal in Japan a few months back….”
It does totally make sense now, these discussions with WWE a couple weeks ago. Zach time to rejoice, you called it. Now selling a company does not necessarily mean that it’s the end of the world for that company, but with the scenario of DSE losing the TV deal, it is time for a restructure. Remember the UFC was also bought from SEG!…Many questions: how much will it fetch? That will tell a lot about the state of PRIDE. But really my first reaction was not good, in fact I sounded like Dana White!
If somebody buys it and revives it, lets hope it is the UFC and not a wrestling organization.
Topics: All Topics, MMA, PRIDE, Stephan Marceau | 28 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
Any chance of UFC buying PRIDE would backfire like WWF buying WCW and ECW? Although for the WWF it backfired by making one of the worse storylines in pro wrestling history.
What about the benefits? Being able to run shows in Japan using the PRIDE name?
I imagine the UFC would be interested in picking up individual contracts more than bringing in the PRIDE name, especially considering the Yakuza stigma that helped lead them to lose their TV deal would still be attached to that name, even if the entity that owned it changed.
Even more than the contracts, I think UFC would be interested in the tape library. For starters, newly-signed international fighters could be better introduced. Also, as UFC has followed the WWE’s lead in developing new distribution channels for old footage, no competitor can make as much money repackaging old PRIDE fights (for V-O-D, DVD, Unleashed, etc.).
Remember when Anderson Silva had the PPV special before the Franklin fight. Silva’s hype reel had the same few images of him hitting Chris Leben. Knockout aside, the PRIDE footage is much better at conveying his power and talent. How much more valuable is Rampage or CroCop or Wanderlei Silva if their explosive striking and brutal finishes can be aired?
“Zach time to rejoice, you called it.”
I’m sure his mother has already prepared a fine platter of cupcakes and grape soda to take down to the basement.
Who knows, this could end up being a good thing. Them going from KRS to DSE was, now lets watch how this pans out.
If the UFC were to buy Pride’s assets, it’d be best to just take the tape library and a few select contracts. Let’s be honest, the name “Pride” doesn’t hold too much value. For the diehard-fans maybe, but other than them? All the yakuza allegations have tainted the name and logo considerably in the eye of the japanese public, and over in the US (and pretty much the rest of the world) people just go “What?” if you mention “Pride”, or think of it as a “gay-thing” (as in “Gay Pride” for example).
The tape library on the other hand would be perfect, because the UFC can use it in many different ways. Highlight Packages, Intros, Video on demand, “Best of…”-dvds, “Ultimate Knockouts”, “Unleashed”. Pride has a huge library, so there’d be some money to be made with it.
And they should just take over a few selected contracts, because they shouldn’t make the mistake of having a bloated roster with longterm-contracts. We all know how that went in WCW back in the days, it just doesn’t make any financial sense in having dozens of contracts over multiple fights. Their heavyweights would make the most sense, simply due to the fact that the UFC’s division is absolutely shallow, and the division that would gain the most from absorbing Pride. Other than that i’d say Wand, Shogun, Diet-Nog to freshen up their LHW-division (and yes, no Arona, because they need exciting fighters, and they already have a LnP-artist in Tito, who’s far more marketable), Filho, Kang and Henderson for Middleweight, and Gomi, Melendez and Kawajiri for Lightweight.
I seriously doubt that the UFC would buy PRIDE for the video rights, that’s an insane amount of money for something the UFC has shown it doesn’t hold as a major priority. I’m also unsure about the idea of buying it to get the contracts of all these fighters. It goes to figure that most of the fighters in PRIDE are there because PRIDE is paying them more than what the UFC is willing to pay. Considering what a control freak UFC execs have shown themselves to be I doubt they’d be willing to take contracts paying more than they want to with conditions that often allow fighters to fight in other organizations (many of these contracts have stipulations allowing US fights).
Aaaanyways, it will be interesting to see what happens. I have no doubt that PRIDE can survive if they transfer correctly, ditching out all the executives with any taint from the yakuza scandal. It all depends on the goals of the people who end up buying the company and if the company ends up keeping brains when it changes hands.
I wouldnt start diving up all of the contracts to UFC just yet. I honetly can see HEROs take a BULK of contracts becuase they will pay the proven stars (Fedor, Crocop, Silva) just as much as PRIDE use to pay them (now that they are going to be the ONLY game in town/Japan) or at least loads more than UFC will offer them. Just ask Mirko, his offer from Dana was a joke. I can see only maybe a few small lightweights/ Middleweights jumping to UFC, definilty any of their european stars because I dont think HEROs would be intrested in them.
On a side note, I do think it would be most entertaining if the WWE bought PRIDE. Entertaining like watching someone drop a 5000$ plasma screen down a flight of stairs. Some very very very long stairs.
[…] Depending on who buys them this may turn out better than expected. Fight Opinion has more details here. […]
Josh: I think that it’d be the other way around, with Hero’s picking up mostly fighters from the smaller weightclasses, simply due to the fact that most of them are japanese. K-1/Hero’s has always tried to cater to their homebase Japan first, with their constant push of fighters like Kid Yamamoto and Genki Sudo, and them acquiring the services of Sakuraba and Nakao.
Kawajiri, Chonan, Gomi, Gono, Mizaki, Sakurai and Minowa would be much better suited for them because of that. Denis Kang would be also a sure bet, since they’d try to continue what Pride started, passing him off as a Korean, and trying to tap even more into that market. And of course they’d also need some more competition for these fighters, as they most probably wouldn’t want to pit all their japanese “aces” against each other repeatedly, so they’d also pick up fighters like Melendez, Filho, Black, Curran, Suloev and Azeredo.
If you want to buy a company for their tape library, you should do so once they are worth almost nothing and get it at a bargin price.
The UFC would only really want a few fighters from Pride. And most of them are near the end of their contracts anyways, so it wouldn’t make much of a difference. Guys like Silva, Cro Cop, and others.
JOSH Says:
December 4th, 2006 at 3:24 pm
I wouldnt start diving up all of the contracts to UFC just yet. I honetly can see HEROs take a BULK of contracts becuase they will pay the proven stars (Fedor, Crocop, Silva) just as much as PRIDE use to pay them (now that they are going to be the ONLY game in town/Japan) or at least loads more than UFC will offer them. Just ask Mirko, his offer from Dana was a joke. I can see only maybe a few small lightweights/ Middleweights jumping to UFC, definilty any of their european stars because I dont think HEROs would be intrested in them.
Josh, it sounds as though you think that Pride is paying more than the UFC. This has been proven not to be the case. The overall pay is not too dissimilar.
Any upper level fighter is going to have the chance to make millions should they reach headlining status.
I do think that Preach makes some sense, that K-1 would be looking at the 183/160 guys first and foremost.
I thought the major reason they were concentrating on the lower weight classes was because they knew they couldnt compete with the talent level at 205 and HW.
Wouldn’t it make sense that they’d pick these guys up if they were now available? At least that was my understanding of the situation…
Lynchman:
Josh, it sounds as though you think that Pride is paying more than the UFC. This has been proven not to be the case. The overall pay is not too dissimilar.
Any upper level fighter is going to have the chance to make millions should they reach headlining status.
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Read the interview and article from MMA Weekly. Mirko basically states that UFC offered him in the range of 100,000 – 200,000 (for the last two fights of what appears to be a six fight contract). From my understanding he was making around $350,000+ bonuses etc. fighting in PRIDE.
So yes, I’d say its dissimilar and a substantial paycut.
The Gaijin Says:
December 4th, 2006 at 4:37 pm
Lynchman:
Josh, it sounds as though you think that Pride is paying more than the UFC. This has been proven not to be the case. The overall pay is not too dissimilar.
Any upper level fighter is going to have the chance to make millions should they reach headlining status.
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Read the interview and article from MMA Weekly. Mirko basically states that UFC offered him in the range of 100,000 – 200,000 (for the last two fights of what appears to be a six fight contract). From my understanding he was making around $350,000+ bonuses etc. fighting in PRIDE.
So yes, I’d say its dissimilar and a substantial paycut.
In terms of what he was making in Pride, that is simply speculation. Any UFC deal would allow for substantial increases if/when he headlined.
I don’t think he is making that much. I have seen some of the pride pay, with the numbers coming from three different sources with connections to Pride or Pride fighters, and the pay is pretty close.
In general, Pride offers more garaunteed money, but the UFC has a higher potential to make money. Pride does not offer all headliners percentages or bonuses based on how well the show does. All fighters in the Main events and co main events (number two fights) on the UFC ppvs make additional money based on how the show does. GSP did not just get 78k(58 for the fight, 20k for the KO of the night), he will end up with A LOT more than that after the ppv buys come in.
Rich Franklin, for his fight with Loiseau, made as much as Fedor ended up making for The Real Deal. Having seen Fedor’s downside, I am certain that Mirko’s downside is not 350K. His downside is not higher than Fedor’s. Pride’s pay slides based on who you fight. An easy fight will make you your downside, or bottom end pay of your contract.
On a huge televised card in Japan, Mirko and Fedor make more. On a show without television, they make less.
If Mirko signed with the UFC, he could end up making 1-2 million on a fight, if the ppv did well. Tito and chuck will likely each end up making over 2 million for their fight, likely close to 2.5.
Mirko had a dispute with Pride because they were only going to pay him for one fight for the OWGP semis and finals.
The Gaijin Says:
December 4th, 2006 at 4:37 pm
Lynchman:
Josh, it sounds as though you think that Pride is paying more than the UFC. This has been proven not to be the case. The overall pay is not too dissimilar.
Any upper level fighter is going to have the chance to make millions should they reach headlining status.
—————————————————————————–
Read the interview and article from MMA Weekly. Mirko basically states that UFC offered him in the range of 100,000 – 200,000 (for the last two fights of what appears to be a six fight contract). From my understanding he was making around $350,000+ bonuses etc. fighting in PRIDE.
So yes, I’d say its dissimilar and a substantial paycut.
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Sorry, I should have broken comments and did not do so. Here is where The Gaijin comment ends and mine begins.
In terms of what he was making in Pride, that is simply speculation. Any UFC deal would allow for substantial increases if/when he headlined.
I don’t think he is making that much. I have seen some of the pride pay, with the numbers coming from three different sources with connections to Pride or Pride fighters, and the pay is pretty close.
In general, Pride offers more garaunteed money, but the UFC has a higher potential to make money. Pride does not offer all headliners percentages or bonuses based on how well the show does. All fighters in the Main events and co main events (number two fights) on the UFC ppvs make additional money based on how the show does. GSP did not just get 78k(58 for the fight, 20k for the KO of the night), he will end up with A LOT more than that after the ppv buys come in.
Rich Franklin, for his fight with Loiseau, made as much as Fedor ended up making for The Real Deal. Having seen Fedor’s downside, I am certain that Mirko’s downside is not 350K. His downside is not higher than Fedor’s. Pride’s pay slides based on who you fight. An easy fight will make you your downside, or bottom end pay of your contract.
On a huge televised card in Japan, Mirko and Fedor make more. On a show without television, they make less.
If Mirko signed with the UFC, he could end up making 1-2 million on a fight, if the ppv did well. Tito and chuck will likely each end up making over 2 million for their fight, likely close to 2.5.
Mirko had a dispute with Pride because they were only going to pay him for one fight for the OWGP semis and finals.
I could care less WHO owns it as long as they keep the spirit of Pride, the Pride rules, the fighters and the production value. I wonder if they would keep it in its base of origin in Japan or move it over to US? Like others have said, buying the promotion and using the name makes no sense if you want to bring it to the US, they’d have better luck cannibalizing it.
So either a US entity buys Pride to cannibalize it or an Asian one steps in to retain and run with the challenges DSE had before with expansion and securing TV deals.
I read several comments. Some have suggested they’d like to see the UFC buy Pride. I too would like to see “dream match-ups,” but lets be serious: Zuffa would screw Pride up badly. The UFC is more popular than ever, but the quality of MMA in the UFC is horrid (no knees to a kneed fighter, no stomps, 3 rounds, 5 minutes apiece).
In any event, I suspect Zuffa will bid seriously on Pride, if it is for sale. I would guess though that Korean interests or Bodog will bid highest. There is a chance the WWE’s bid will surpass all. Shane McMahon may want his own project, something out from under his father’s cloak (to an extent; wouldn’t want to move too far from VKM).
Some many idiots thought Pride was dead. They hoped for it, they hoped the UFC would rein alone. It won’t, lynchman. Clean yourself up, the wetdream won’t last.
I would be very happy if UFC bought Pride, but i don’t see it happening. They can just cherrypick the fighters they want once they’re out of contract. IMO if this is true (and it sits at 50/50 in my mind until we hear more), i expect either WWE or a Bodog/Heros teamup to buy DSE out of PRIDE.
Badape, if you had ever read anything I have written, you would know that I don’t see MMA as Pride vs. The UFC.
The complaints you have about the UFC have nothing to do with them, but are part of the rules set forth by the SACs. Those are the same rules that U.S. Pride shows will be abiding by.
When it comes to the business side of MMA, I don’t look at it from a fan’s perspective, I look at it from the business perspective.
This is not PRIDE BAD, UFC GOOD, this is simply reality. They HAVE to get a new television deal to continue at their current level. And the likelihood of them being on tv in the next six months is slim at best.
They tried everything under the sun to get a tv deal for NYE, including signing Tyson and attempting to sign one of the hottest Japanese boxers. They could not get a deal. I don’t see them getting on tv in the next six months.
Pride is pushing into the U.S. because they have seen the buy rates that pro wrestling and the UFC have been doing. If they were able to do 200k buys, they would make an extra 3-4 million right there. As it is, the first show did between 50-75k buys. That is between $750,000 to 1.5 million. Depending on just how much money went into the show, they MAY have broken even. And keep in mind the first show in a market usually does bigger numbers than the following show. History has shown that.
In order to break into the U.S. market, Pride will need….a better TV deal. One that does not appear to be on the horizon. Without tv on a real U.S. cable network, I think 150k buys is the best they could hope for and that would take some doing.
2007 will be a make or break year for Pride. As contracts come up, anyone and everyone that wants to be a player in MMA will be looking to sign the name fighters. This means that Pride will either be losing major fighters or will be spending far more on payroll than they have in the past. If they do keep the talent, they will be spending more on payroll and will be struggling even more to make ends meet.
They recently did away with the Bushido shows because they were only drawing 5-8000 paid. Pride was losing money on those shows. They will now be using those fighters on their regular shows and be spreading the higher priced fighters out over more shows.
i’m not suprised by this
Lynchman: What PRIDE paid Fedor for the show is ONLY what PRIDE wanted the LV and American tax boards to know about…it wasnt the full pay. There are many reports in Japan about how PRIDE fighters are getting at least six figure deals per fighte WITHOUT bonues.
Preach: The only reason I thinK HEROs is picking up the heavyweights is because they are seriously lacking one…they have what Anderson Silva…and a aging Don Frye? They need the blood from PRIDE and some serious HW competiton.
JOSH Says:
December 4th, 2006 at 8:11 pm
Lynchman: What PRIDE paid Fedor for the show is ONLY what PRIDE wanted the LV and American tax boards to know about…it wasnt the full pay. There are many reports in Japan about how PRIDE fighters are getting at least six figure deals per fighte WITHOUT bonues.
Preach: The only reason I thinK HEROs is picking up the heavyweights is because they are seriously lacking one…they have what Anderson Silva…and a aging Don Frye? They need the blood from PRIDE and some serious HW competiton.
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Josh,
Two things, first what is reported to the NSAC has NOTHING to do with the IRS.
Second, I am not talking about the numbers that were releasesd. As I said in a prev post, I have seen what several fighters made for The Real Deal including Fedor. The numbers came from three different sources that were either in Pride or in the camps of fighters. I was told, from two different people, virtually the same amount for Fedor. Yes, it was higher than the stated 100k, but was well under the previously stated 350k that Mirko supposedly makes.
The actual amount that Fedor made after bonuses is close to what Rich Franklin actually made, after bonuses, for his fight with Dave Loiseau.
MOST of the Pride fighters are NOT making six figures. That is completely false. I say this having heard amounts from a couple of U.S. fighters competing in Pride. As far as bonuses go, most don’t get a win bonus, but simply are paid for the fight.
Ok then fine Lynchman once PRIDE folds we shall see how many fighters go to UFC or other places citing Dana wasnt offering them enough.
All moot debate aside, this was not reported in the Observer. Pride and WWE met regarding co-promotion, as TNA and WFA did a few months ago.
To further correct some factual errors, Pride pays MUCH more than UFC due to Japanese sponsorship arrangements. The NSAC reported paydays are the numbers used to calculate taxes paid to the IRS, hence the lower numbers.
infamous Says:
December 4th, 2006 at 11:17 pm
All moot debate aside, this was not reported in the Observer. Pride and WWE met regarding co-promotion, as TNA and WFA did a few months ago.
To further correct some factual errors, Pride pays MUCH more than UFC due to Japanese sponsorship arrangements. The NSAC reported paydays are the numbers used to calculate taxes paid to the IRS, hence the lower numbers.
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Sorry, the IRS is federal. The SACs are state run. The taxes are based on the income they report to……the IRS.
I will say this one more time: The actual amount that Fedor made, after all bonuses, is indeed higher than what was reported. It is also roughly the same amount that Rich Franklin made, after bonuses, for fighting Dave Loiseau.
His opponent, Mark Coleman, made a hell of a lot less than Rich’s opponent, Loiseau, did.
You mentioned Japanese sponsorships. Rampage Jackson was very public about the fact that few foreign fighters make much in endorsements in Japan.
If you want to include sponsorship deals, most UFC fighters are making a lot more. Joe Riggs recently mentioned making an extra 60k in endorsements for one of the his fights. That is just Joe Riggs.
As I said, I have seen numbers that have come from fighter camps and from a person within Pride. They are more than what was stated, but not a whole lot more in most cases.
The flip side is that the fighters in the two main fights on each UFC ppv make a hell of a lot more than what is reported.
I wont debate you on the sponsorship issue, but those reported amounts directly affect withholding taxes on foreign competitors, regardless of jurisdiction. Are you suggesting that the NSAC reported amounts and IRS reported amounts are somehow different?
That would leave the reporting entity in some dangerous legal waters, wouldn’t it?
Either way, we’re debating on a tangent. My point was and is that Meltzer never reported this, some schmuck on the UG did. Although I would not be suprised to hear of a sale, Pride FC is not actively seeking buyers, regardless of forum posts by “insiders”.
Having just received said copy of the newsletter, I retract my above statement.
That being said, If Calvin Ayre owns Pride within the next few weeks, I hope he gets some advice on television presentation.