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UFC message: Please forget the outcome of Condit/Diaz I
By Zach Arnold | February 8, 2012
You generally book rematches in the fight game based on one of two reasons: a) the first bout was so good or so close that there’s a clamor by the fans to see it again or b) you didn’t get the outcome you wanted as the promoter the first time around. I call reason b) the “Kiyoshi Tamura/Valentijn Overeem” scenario, based on a famous RINGS fight where Tamura, who had been pushed hard as the company’s ace, got destroyed in a shoot out of nowhere and the promotion went right into damage control.
With the news breaking tonight that we’re going to get Carlos Condit vs. Nick Diaz in a re-match, I think it’s fair to say that you can squarely classify this rematch as a scenario where the promotion didn’t get what they wanted for the initial outcome.
With Georges St. Pierre on the sidelines for a long time to come due to a torn ACL, the Welterweight picture is muddled as far as what to do for bookings on the calendar. If Nick Diaz had won, he would have sat out and waited for St. Pierre. With Carlos Condit winning, it seemed that there was plenty of pressure for him to fight again. Who would it be, though? Jake Ellenberger? Josh Koscheck? Neither scenario seemed to be all that enthusiastically pursued, as Condit’s agent Malki Kawa expressed disinterest in a Condit/Ellenberger fight during an interview with Mauro Ranallo on The MMA Show. So, we end up with Zuffa pushing the reset button.
Hey, maybe they’ll get the outcome they wanted the first time round. Nick Diaz, The Corporately-backed Bad Boy from the 209.
If UFC is booking this rematch because they are hopeful that Nick Diaz will win the rematch, I guess I can understand that logic (even if I don’t agree with it). However, if they are booking this rematch based on the loud criticism of the minority of Nick Diaz boosters & fighters online complaining about the outcome of the UFC 143 fight, that would be an impulsively reactive decision by Zuffa management to listen to the online bubble of MMA fans. The world map that UFC put on their web site claiming global sentiment for the outcome of Diaz/Condit was 47%/47% is just bizarre.
Don’t get me wrong. I understand why Carlos Condit wouldn’t mind a rematch with Nick Diaz — because he thinks he can beat him again. I understand why Nick Diaz wants a rematch. What I don’t see is how the rematch is going to produce a dramatically different outcome unless Condit gives up the Greg Jackson counter-strategy that we saw at UFC 143 and decides to go for broke in order for Nick to have a better chance to knock him out.
So, if you hated the outcome of the first fight and the way the judges scored it, what makes you inclined to believe that you want to see the rematch if the fans were bored with the way the fight played out the first time?
I thought Carlos Condit won the fight and that he would stay on the sidelines waiting for St. Pierre to recover. He fought a smart fight. If you look at UFC as a real sport, then Carlos Condit used a real sports strategy to win. It was as ugly as the New Jersey Devils’ infamous neutral zone trap… but it was effective. However, it is clear that the criticism from fighters and fans about the way Condit fought at UFC 143 has annoyed his camp. Just look at the comments Greg Jackson made during an interview yesterday with USA Today:
“There’s still a large contingent of people, that they just want to see these guys almost die, or the other guy almost die and come back, and sometimes fights are like that,” says Greg Jackson, one of the best-known trainers of athletes in the Ultimate Fighting Championship. “But sometimes you get technical masterpieces too, and to hate a beautiful, technical fight — you’re not really a fight fan. You’re just there to watch the car wrecks, you know what I mean?”
That’s not the kind of thing you say if you think the masses are happy with the way the fight played out at UFC 143. I suppose the UFC hype machine will make you want to see Diaz/Condit II but it’s not like the company will be able to change the impression many had after watching the outcome of the first fight. Maybe Nick Diaz’s biggest female booster, Ronda Rousey, will fill in for him on the impending Countdown show and be his spokeswoman on why Nick was yet again victimized by The Man.
Speaking of Ronda, here’s Miesha Tate saying the woman is delusional.
“I don’t really listen to much of anything Ronda says. I don’t watch her interviews. I get a little bit of that drift that comes through Twitter, you know, quoting people, ‘oh, she said this, she said that.’ And half the time I really honestly think it just makes her sound like an idiot. I mean, that’s just being brutally honest. I think she’s pretty delusional. I’ve yet to see Ronda actually fight. I’ve seen her go out and do her judo and whatnot but she hasn’t ever brought a fight and that’s what I”m going to do. I’m going to make this a fight and anything that she says is used as motivation, definitely.”
You’ll be happy to know that, on a 1-5 scale, this is how Bas Rutten sees the two ladies measuring up for their March bout:
Miesha Tate: Striking (4), Wrestling (5), Grappling (4), Speed (4), Strength (4), Endurance (5)
Ronda Rousey: Striking (3), Wrestling (4), Grappling (5), Speed (5), Strength (4), Endurance (4)
Topics: Media, MMA, UFC, Zach Arnold | 120 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
Odds are Diaz/Condit II is going to suck just like Saturday’s fight.
I read all the pro Condit comments about how smart he is and what a great gameplan he had. Then there were a bunch if BS comments about how if you don’t like what Condit did you don’t understand MMA. That’s just idiotic. Condit looked like a taekwondo point fighter.
I’m losing a lot of interest in MMA. I’ve been a fan since day one. I understand the sport better than most people and I worked in the business. I don’t give a hoot about the titles. They’re all arbitrary to me. I just like to see good fights. What Condit did and what GSP does most of the time isn’t fighting. It’s winning the points game. That’s boring to me. I don’t think every fight has to be a slugfest and has to have a finish. But I want to see the fighters going for the win. Condit made no effort to finish that fight. He just wanted to win three rounds.
Just my two cents. I hope this phase passes like the awful lay and pray phase of 2000-2003. But as we get more watered down weight classes and ‘#1 contender’ fights we’ll probably see more safety first fights.
“I’m losing a lot of interest in MMA. I’ve been a fan since day one.”
Oooh, its subject zero.
Everybody shutup and heed the words of the ORIGINAL MMA FAN!
😉
“What Condit did and what GSP does most of the time isn’t fighting …Condit made no effort to finish that fight.”
That seems mildly insulting sir.
Despite Condit beating up Diaz’ face more than Diaz did Condit.
Despite Condite KO/TKOing his last three opponents.
Despite GSP regularly mauling and besting every top contender.
They are now rarely fighting or making any effort according to you.
You expected Condit to stand still in front of Diaz against the fence like Paul Daley did.
Even though you made it a point to deny it, everything else that you say tells me that you ARE in fact expecting a brawl or a slaughter instead of a sport.
Or your mind will wander and your losing interest.
You may be the original MMA fan, but I like to think that we can evolve past you.
“I’m losing a lot of interest in MMA. I’ve been a fan since day one.”
If that were true, I’d call shenanigans on any and all claims that this was a boring fight that “ruined the sport” for you. One word: Hammerhouse. Two words: Severn/Shamrock. Three words: stop whining already.
But I’m not, because there’s no way you’ve been a fan since day one in the manner you describe, because exposure to MMA prior to the UFC’s Greatest Knockouts DVDs would have and should have prepared you for a fight that went the distance.
It’s like someone complaining about the way Floyd Mayweather fights and saying they’ve been a fan since the days of Sugar Ray Leonard. I mean, good Lord.
The trolls is a comin’.
It’s wacky time!
Mr.Roadblock, what you might not realize is that your knowledge of the fight game is now an albatross that prevents you from appreciating the splendor of the “new mma” in the minds of the know-nothing brigade.
Ignorance is bliss!
With all due respect Mr. Roadblock, I don’t think it’s fair to say that Condit “made no effort to finish the fight”. If just one of punches (even the spinning ones) or head kicks had rocked Diaz, he’d have jumped on him and everyone would be singing a different tune. Full credit to Diaz’s chin.
Look at Diaz face and Condits face after the fight.
Who was hitting who?
And lets hear about how many times Diaz has been finished by anyone.
And perhaps you should look at the punch stats to see “who was hitting who”. 😉
For the most part, however, damage is a not an accurate assessment of who is winning a during a match. There are fighters with a genetic disposition to cuts and bruises.
But since you apparently are, neither fighter looked much worse for wear.
Yes, I saw the stats.
Diaz had more arm strikes.
But Condits style hits harder, and he did more damage with fewer strikes.
(The facial damage wasn’t similar between them.)
And if we’re just counting “strikes” regardless of impact, then kicks are strikes too and we’re back to condit.
I also like how everyone’s showing that picture of Diaz going “c’mon, bring it” and not the moment three seconds later where Condit punched him in the face.
A lot of this stinks of markdom. Sorry, but it does. Look, I understand if you’re a fan of Nick Diaz as a fighter (though not as a human being since he’s a basket case and kind of a jerk). But Diaz was flat-footed, didn’t move, didn’t listen to his corner, and got beat up.
By the by, a lot of the same people were raging about a fight some time ago where a similar strategy was employed, except they were pissed that Shogun didn’t get the Decision for doing the same thing basically. So if you like the fighter, it’s “defensive techniques” or he’s “elusive.” And if you don’t, then he was scared, homie. 209, represent.
Diaz is notorious for bleeding and his face swelling up. You guys were probably (though maybe not) on the bandwagon in time to remember he had surgery to remove scar tissue around his eyes.
You know nothing about boxing or combat sports in general if you compare Condits strategy to Floyd Mayweather. Floyd brings it every fight. He’s a counter puncher, but he’s brutal.
For the record, I really like Condit. He’s one of th most aggressive and inventive strikers in MMA and has an aggressive ground game. That’s why I was so frustrated that he was just looking to win on the cards.
If the great evolution in MMA is to use wrestling to score takedowns and hold your opponent down or to pepper a guy with kicks where you dont turn your hips over, I’m not on board. What I think reeks of markism is people saying they like this style of fighting. Maybe you really do. Hell, there are people who honestly like emo music. If you enjoy it bully for you.
“why I was so frustrated that he was just looking to win on the cards.
If the great evolution in MMA is to use wrestling to score takedowns and hold your opponent down”
lolling at Mr Day One Fan here. Since you’ve been a fan such a long time, I’m sure you remember the ~UFC10 wave of this backlash (wrestlers are ruining MMA!) or the next one about five years later.
Every few years some wrestler becomes dominant and everyone yells that the sky is falling and MMA is ruined. Then someone actually trains to beat them instead of whining that they can’t and the world moves on. As the original MMA fan, you should remember this happening over and over and over again.
Okay, now we know you’re just trolling. It’s an analogy and it’s apt, because I see plenty of boxing fans throw the same criticism at Mayweather, that he’s a cowardly fighter who goes for decisions, etcetera.
The only roadblock I see is to an actual discussion.
The trolling on this site is really getting out of hand lately. I am starting to wonder if Zach is going to start turning off comment sections again like he has in the past where the site started to look like a troll zoo as much as Sherdog.
We all get passionate about things here. Some people say things that we think are insane because they go against our logic. But try to have a little class, it’s not that hard, gentlemen.
Roadblock and I have been fiercely debating each other on this site for years, and a lot of times we couldn’t have had more different opinions if we tried. But we acted with a little bit of dignity. This, on the other hand, just makes me embarrassed to read it. Like the writings of kids in Junior High sometimes.
And for the record, I join with Mr. Roadblock, a hearty
fuckingLOL at all these people making a comparison between what Condit did Saturday and Floyd Mayweather.B***h please. That was NOTHING like how Floyd Mayweather fights, not even close, PBF is a defense first counter puncher that puts a hurt on guys – Condit, not so much. And sorry but PBF sits in exchanges, slips punches w/ slight adjustments and hits with hard counters…he doesn’t turn his back and take 6 sprint steps to the middle of the ring.
But I suspect 98% of the people making this “comparison” or “analogy” or however speciously they want to dress it up, have never seen a Mayweather fight and are just making comments b/c they’ve heard he’s a famous boxer who “counter punches” and “is boring”. It’s not an apt comparison by any measure, it’s a very incorrect one that no one that would purport to know a thing about boxing would ever say.
“B***h please. That was NOTHING like how Floyd Mayweather fights, not even close, PBF is a defense first counter puncher that puts a hurt on guys – Condit, not so much.”
Easy, all one has to do is check the finishing numbers of each combatant to realize Condit “puts a hurt” on guys much more than Mayweather does.
However, he’s no where near as good as Floyd. Lets just not pretend Floyd is some hard punching dynamo.
“Easy, all one has to do is check the finishing numbers of each combatant to realize Condit “puts a hurt” on guys much more than Mayweather does.”
edub – my reference was to Condit’s style on Saturday, not Condit’s career.
“…people making a comparison between what Condit did Saturday and Floyd Mayweather.”
“… That was NOTHING like how Floyd Mayweather fights, not even close, PBF is a defense first counter puncher that puts a hurt on guys – Condit, not so much.”
Sorry that wasn’t exactly as clear as intended, I guess.
I don’t think that anyone doubts or questions that Condit is an exciting fighter who finishes fights – dude has a 93% finish rate on wins and 80% overall [PBF’s is ~62%]. Frankly I think that’s a big part of the backlash.
I haven’t seen the fight yet (I was out of the country for the last 2.5 weeks), but amongst hardcore fans I have talked to, opinions on this fight seem to be split. I will certainly wait to see it myself to judge.
On the topic of a rematch, UFC is a business. Nobody cared about Carlos Condit before this fight, and he apparently managed to lose a lot of fans with his performance. Greg Jackson can complain all he wants, but 9/10 casual mma fans would pick a Chris Leben fight over a Carlos Condit fight any day of the week, even though the latter is a much better fighter.
*(I am using Leben as an example of an exciting fighter).
Nick Diaz is a guy who makes every fight compelling, whereas when it came time for the biggest fight of his career, Condit did everything possible to avoid having to engage with Diaz. I’m not saying it was the wrong strategy, just that there are consequences for every action.
“On the topic of a rematch, UFC is a business.”
Indeed it is.
Would you like to see Kimbo vs Wes Sims for a title?
Because that would do business hand over fist.
And that could be arranged.
Do you also consider MMA a sport?
Do you believe that title shots should be earned and the results adhered to?
Um, Kimbo vs Wes Sims wouldn’t do any buys. That isn’t a good example for every conceivable reason. We are talking about a rematch between 2 of the 5 best 170 Lb fighters in the world, having a rematch overly a hotly disputed match, not Kimbo.
Of course mma is a sport. What kind of questions are these? You are trying to be too clever by half. Nobody complains when the NBA puts their best games on Christmas day (their first national tv appearance), or when the NFL moves their best game to Monday night, so they can get the most eyes on their best product. The fact that the UFC wants to get Diaz vs GSP doesn’t mean that GSP vs Condit II is somehow less sporting.
I think title shots should be given to people who either earn them via victories (J2S) or via fan interest (Lesnar). Diaz has both. I haven’t seen the fight yet, so I can’t say what I think about the result. I can say though, that there is controversy surrounding the decision, and I can say that Carlos Condit does not inspire people to pay 50 dollars like Nick Diaz does (even though I have always found Condit to be a great fighter, and one who is generally enjoyable to watch as well).
As far as results go, I don’t think bad results should be adhered to. Do you? Do you think Leonard Garcia beat Nam Phan their first match? Rematches are appropriate if the people want to see the fighters settle the score. If Condit beats Diaz again, it will give him more name recognition and will make Condit vs GSP a bigger fight. If Diaz wins, well, we all win. Diaz vs GSP is the fight that has the most crossover appeal except possibly Rashad vs Jones.
Don’t worry, this guy has come out of nowhere this week to troll everyone like some douche-y hipster mma fan.
You just don’t appreciate the sport of mma and if you “didn’t like the fight” (a purely subjective notion anyways), then you’re really not an mma fan or at least you’re a fan the sport can do without.
You’re not really the elitist mma fan you think you are RST. Point in case – acting like you’re some mma intellectual then saying Wes Sims vs. Kimbo would do huge business. LOFL.
The big problem with this analogy is that the NBA and the NFL don’t move teams in or out of playoff/championship contention based on how they win games.
“You’re not really the elitist mma fan you think you are RST.”
You said that, not me.
Its kind of flattering that you think that though.
But you shouldn’t be insecure about yourself.
The world needs twerps too.
“Um, Kimbo vs Wes Sims wouldn’t do any buys.”
BS.
Kimbo carried EXC to what was one of the most viewed MMA shows in history.
It might still be, but I haven’t checked because I dont care.
And I think it is the same example of arranging fights due to popularity instead of due to results.
“Of course mma is a sport. What kind of questions are these?”
I dont know how you feel about it, thats why I asked.
YOU said that its a business.
“The big problem with this analogy is that the NBA and the NFL don’t move teams in or out of playoff/championship contention based on how they win games.”
@Kevin. That is fair, but those sports don’t have the same degree of ability to change cards that a fight promotion does. They also aren’t operating on a ppv structure so they don’t have the same impetus to get the 2 most desirable teams in the Super Bowl. You can look at boxing; close fights tend to draw even more interest in the rematches. JMM vs Pac was close all 3 times; same with Barrera-Morales fights. Shogun vs Machida was a very close fight the first time, and Dana called for an immediate rematch. Same with Garcia vs Phan (minus the close part). I see no reason this shouldn’t be (re)settled in a manner that is less controversial and or gives the fans the fight they want.
RST: Are you simple? How have you determined that because something is a business, it isn’t also a sport?
You’re right.
I was being snarky when I said “do you also consider it a sport?”.
What I was assuming that you would understand that I meant by that was “Dont you agree that its a sport”.
Just having a little fun, not trying to offend.
Its definitely both.
Personally I like to see the sport take precedence as much as possible, thats the aspect that interests me, but you cant have the sport without the business to support it.
We all agree on that.
“Its kind of flattering that you think that though.
But you shouldn’t be insecure about yourself.
The world needs twerps too.”
Not insecure in the least. I can appreciate the fight Condit fought and the plan he felt he had to implement, but I can also (a) not find it to be the most exciting fight – and a letdown based on how they were hyping it and (b) appreciate that others did not like that kind of TKD point fighting exercise where, as much as others are trying to deny it, a fighter was “on his bike” the whole time.
Not sure why that’s not hard to grasp. Like, at all.
BS.
“Kimbo carried EXC to what was one of the most viewed MMA shows in history.
It might still be, but I haven’t checked because I dont care.
And I think it is the same example of arranging fights due to popularity instead of due to results.”
And then he got exposed and the aura was gone. There’s also a big difference between what moves a free tv needle – someone like Slice who made his bones attracting attention on YouTube was on Free TV b/c his core audience (teens and young 20 yr olds) would watch it for free – but couldn’t do anything for a ppv card. He didn’t draw a dime for the UFC on ppv.
I would hardly say that this is matchup is the result of the UFC not getting what it wants – there is a pretty big variance on opinion from the fans that is giving the rematch a lot of oxygen.
It really is the best alternative for both the fighters (who get to stay active, and get a hopefully a decent payday) and the UFC (who get to build up another rivalry and the the WW division interesting in GSP\’s absence).
Also, rematches have been some of the most exciting fights recently ie. Shogun – Machida II, Edgar – Maynard II, Mir – Nog II.
Also, Bas’ rankings are hilarious.
“…some of the most exciting fights recently ie. Shogun – Machida II, …”
Interesting.
I thought Shogun/Machida 1 was a hell of a better fight then 2.
20X
And Mir/Nog was an interesting fight, more interesting for the reputations of the fighters and the unusual outcome than as an actual fight worth rewatching.
Hardly enough meat on that bone… to actually describe it as “exciting” fight IMO.
I would have just finaly moved on from this BS and let Condit take his shot and then let Diaz get Condit or GSP next, if he hadn’t found some other isht that he needed better by then.
This just makes Dana and the UFC look petty, weak and mildly corrupt.
Oh well, if Condit had any chance of beating GSP he should be able to get past Diaz again anyway.
This is all about the ufc not getting what it wants. If Diaz had got the decision do you think there would of been a rematch. Is Bisping getting a rematch after his fight with Sonnen? Of course not because the UFC wanted Sonnen to win.
I am not complaining about it, In enjoyed the first fight, I will enjoy the 2nd and I like that we arent having to wait untill November to see Condit fight again but lets see it for what it is. It’s nothing to do with a controversial decision and all too do with giving Diaz another opportunity to win and fight GSP
To be fair, Silva is ready to go in June and I would guess that Bisping gets another number one contender fight in the mean time, probably with Munoz.
GSP is out until November, they have time to do a rematch.
You can’t ask the media to treat you like a sport when your actions say anything but athletic sports competition.
The only upside to Dana White’s total lack of fairness is that in MMA, the best always rise to the top. They don’t want Edgar to be champion, but they can do nothing about it. If a fighter wins enough, they are stuck. And I take satisfication in that.
A trend I have seen in the last year expand a lot more is that the MMA Media has been pro “business first” mode. This completely baffles me. The MMA Media should care less about the business of MMA. It’s about the highest ranked fighters competing against each other.
It’s a real downfall of the MMA Community that this culture exists. And it also is a major reason why sports fans will continue to have a problem following MMA which is far less structure and ability to follow as the other major sports.
“If a fighter wins enough, they are stuck.”
And it may very well be that they aint to happy about that.
Just a thought, but it could be that in light of this big “upgrade” to fox that they may be considering it a more metropolitan business model to attempt a more “hands on” approach to who they would like to see getting title shots.
Like boxing.
Silva’s matchmaking has seemed to be getting increasingly suspicious to me for at least a year.
And I agree with you that these Jonny-come-lately MMA media outlets with their constant lazy mantra of “more money, get bigger, more money makes you legit” is another real mindscrew.
And combine all that with the nausea inducing trainwreck of Dana+twitter and you get a frothy mix of MMA, lube and fecal matter.
“A trend I have seen in the last year expand a lot more is that the MMA Media has been pro “business first” mode. This completely baffles me”
It’s funny too, because a few of those guys have gone against the UFC as a “business” as much as possible in the past.
diaz came to fight..thats all that matters to me. condit had a gameplan…ok, maybe. but it was one of the most boring mma-fights in history. all i hope right now is that diaz aint serious with his retirement-anaouncement. he´s just one of the best in the devision. can understand his frustration though. i guess dana is as well.
(sorry for my english…)
PS: diaz vs gomi…one of my all-time favs…
This makes sense for all parties. UFC, Condit and Diaz.
For the UFC, the Condit/Diaz 2 event will be a blockbuster.
Condit agreed to it, he didn’t have to. Why do you think he did that? MONEY!!! That’s why. Dana probably offered him a $1M bonus. Plus if he beats Diaz again (at least a 50/50 proposition), he faces GSP with much much more fan awareness and therefore much higher stakes invovled… (read even more $$$).
For Diaz, it’s obvious. He gets a crack at GSP if he wins (which he is certain he’ll do). He’ll make big money on his next fight with Condit and even more if he gets to Diaz.
I wouldn’t try to find a way to blame the UFC for listening to a small vocal Diaz fanboy base. It just makes sense for all parties.
I was voting for Condit but I’m really happy to hear of the rematch.
Also, the fight I suspect will be 100% different than the first one. Diaz will try to take the fight to the floor from the getgo and Condit will likely spend the next 6 months focusing on shoring up his jitz defense.
…make big money on his next fight with Condit and even more if he gets to Diaz. oops, that should be GSP
A blockbuster? You really think so? I’d be surprised if this last PPV bested 350K in buys. I don’t think a boring fight is going to inspire lots of people to rush out and see it again either.
Let’s not get too hung up on my terminology. Blockbuster is overstating it. However, it would likely be a very strong draw. I’ll bet the fight will be much more entertaining than the first one and I suspect all the hard cores will agree. There will be a great build-up to it.
More people watched Machida-Shogun 2 than the first one and that was a million times more boring than this one.
A monster 17% bump – and oh hey, that Kimbo guy was on the undercard. Not that it made a difference or anything, I’m sure. That means this PPV would do what, 350K instead of the 320K it probably did the first time around? Maybe they can lure Hong Man Choi over and have him fight Shaq or Al Bundy or something….
” I don’t think a boring fight is going to inspire lots of people to rush out and see it again either.”
Edgar-Penn 2 did more buys headlining on it’s own than Edgar-Penn 1 did on the undercard of an Anderson Silva title fight. And almost all of the exact same complaints that are being made about the Diaz/Condit fight were made about Edgar/Penn.
But please, keep with the sky is falling posts. They’re fun to watch. 😉
Edgar/Penn II wasn’t even the fight most heavily promoted on its own card. “Boxing Vs. MMA” was in the form of a freakshow. And yeah, it did better than an international show. Wait, weren’t all international shows supposed to do worse business on US PPV? Oh, yeah.
Ha-ha. Good comparables – an overseas show that aired at 1pm EST vs. a U.S. show that had the real promotional main event of Couture vs. Toney.
Not to mention it drew a whole 80K more.
Many would hate to admit it, but Toney probably brought in close to 150000 on his own when he fought Randy.
I eagerly await the next excuse Alan has for why UFC is doomed after Condit’s next fight, be it against Diaz or whoever, does just fine.
“I eagerly await the next excuse Alan has for why UFC is doomed after Condit’s next fight, be it against Diaz or whoever, does just fine.”
Grow up or learn how to comprehend someone’s point chief.
At no point did he ever say they were “doomed to fail”. He took question with the blind assertion that Diaz-Condit 2 was going to be a “blockbuster” – how is that remotely tied to “doomed to fail”? Then he took question with your equally asinine talking point that Edgar/Penn pulled better numbers on a rematch, when you completely removed all context and other factors – international show, boxing vs. mma, Randy Couture and James Toney.
Once again, I’m so depressed to see the trolls and robots that come out of the woodwork anytime someone says something that isn’t UFC IS THE BEST, SMARTEST, MOST POPULAR AND SUCCESSFUL SPORTS COMPANY ON THE PLANET AND THEY’RE GOING TO BE BIGGER THAN FOOTBALL!!!!11!
Get your head out of the mma bubble and step into reality, you look like a fool.
They aren’t doomed. They’re just going to have PPV buys continue to fall when they choose to put fights like this on that medium instead of having them on, say, Fox. You know, somewhere you could have a large viewing audience to make a bigger star out of one of these two guys. Instead, they’re apparently dead set on headlining that show with the wrong Diaz brother.
I think the fight has a chance to do good numbers. With the right promotion.
UFC could repeat and repeat “What a controversial ending!” so often that the people who didn’t see the fight believe it. Just like how UFC pulled out the “Chuck poked Tito in the eye and that’s why he lost at UFC 47” story to sell their rematch. And the poke really did happen, but Ortiz was dominated the whole fight to where it really didn’t matter. But as soon as that commercial started airing, everybody was saying “If Tito didn’t get poked, he could have beaten Liddell.” So maybe now “Condit didn’t dominate Diaz he just ran away like Starnes” will become the new propaganda.
And you can still sell a rematch of a boring fight. I guarantee if they ever run Evans/Jackson 2, that fight will sell like hotcakes, even though nearly everybody hated the fight. But the hype will make them forget all about it. Never doubt the art of promotion.
The right promotion – so Nick Diaz would show up to pressers and to do his interviews this time and answer questions freely for the first time in his career? Is that what you’re saying?
Jackson/Evans II was a fight that had TUF promoting it between two former world champions, and the first fight did tremendous numbers. Of course the second would do well. who here believes this fight did well?
Diaz needs to give them some footage for the Countdown show. Who really cares if he shows up to the press conferences? Internet writers pay attention to those, but regular fans don’t even know when they are or where to see them. The Countdown shows are all regular fans base fight interest off of.
I said it had the possibility of doing well (“I think the fight has a chance to do good numbers. With the right promotion.”) I didn’t guarantee it would. Nobody can say with certainty. There are too many unanswered questions for the UFC’s business right now.
#1 What’s the new highwater mark standard? Brock couldn’t even do a million in his last fight, and now that he’s gone, did any interest go with him? We know UFC has peaked, but are they also falling off? We don’t know. Are we back to the point of 2005 where half a million buys is a blockbuster and 350,000 is very strong?
#2 How will fight hype be different when it’s all on a station nobody watches? The stuff on Fuel is drawing flies right now. So should UFC write off trying to market fights on it until more subscribers can get it? Where else can they market? Buy infomercial time on stronger stations than Comcast Sportsnets?
“This makes sense for all parties. UFC, Condit and Diaz.”
You know I’m kinda starting to agree.
A grudge match would make 2 money fights instead of one.
And whoever wins the “grudge” match would have much more momentum going into the GSP fight than Condit would have now.
Although if thats going to be the route, I’m not sure wether I think Condit should get a rematch clause if he loses, or just getting this crap finally on the road and over with.
Zach – I totally agree with you re: their reasoning.
On the flip side though: I thought Condit won that fight and I was appalled at the criticism some fighters and pundits levied at him for what I thought was not only a perfectly valid but effective technique. Even still, taking that into consideration? I’d absolutely do a rematch on the basis that Diaz kept it close enough to warrant one, and if you look at 170, there’s nobody more deserving. Ellenberger’s only big win was the recent one over Jake Shields where he was a total mess and distracted because of his father’s death. Koscheck still needs another win (a split decision over Mike Pierce doesn’t scream “#1 contender” to me).
And with GSP out until the end of the year if not longer (ACL tears are no joke and who knows how long it could take for him to actually recover), this would make sense.
So while we can note and criticize the impetus of their decision, I still think it’s the right call.
“I was appalled at the criticism some fighters and pundits levied at him…”
I thought that that was odd also.
But if you thought about it on each individual basis I thought I could see why some of them had that opinion.
From what I’ve seen of randy rousey, she just charges at her opponent like a polar bear and if someone had the sense of mind to get out of the way she would probably just burst through the cage fencing and end up out in the stands somewhere.
She would obviously hate anybody with any semblance of footwork or strategy.
Not to mention her and Diaz are partners in bad attitudes.
Now Hendo had me puzzled and disappointed for a second, then I realized that hendo has never been a strategic fighter.
When Hendo fought Jackson and Randy was in the commentator booth, he said that he thought Jackson would win because hendo just doesn’t use his head when he fights.
Soukudjo is a prime example of Hendo’s tutelage.
I love Hendo, but from his point of view he just didn’t get it.
Honestly I didn’t see many “pundits” questioning the decision.
At least not to the point of being upset by it.
Pretty much every half way professional article I read, and indeed almost every comment I saw either agreed or was okay with it.
The only people I saw pushing the controversy angle was that terrible MMAtv and some weird dude at mmafighting copying a bunch of selected twitter posts.
The “controversy” is mostly UFC’s creation IMO.
“What I don’t see is how the rematch is going to produce a dramatically different outcome unless Condit gives up the Greg Jackson counter-strategy that we saw at UFC 143…”
The same gameplan would probably work again.
In fact if Diaz just came with his same gameplan expecting Condit to do the changing, I think it would be high comedy to see Condit do the exact same thing to him note for note.
Then Diaz and Dana and randy roosy and all their twitter buddies can all rage quit MMA together.
But if Condit wants to try something different (and it would be smart to have more than one option) maybe brush up on some clinch game.
Diaz isn’t very strong.
If Condit can grab Diaz near the fence I’ll bet that he could just bully Diaz’ back to the fence instead.
Then he could unload elbows or even dump him and pin him into the curb and whoop right hands into his face.
Bully Diaz inside of his range.
RST,
Diaz game plan will be tie him up, take him to the floor and sub him.
Of course the next fight will be very different. Obviously Condit will have an adjustment plan and equally obviously, Diaz will focus on ending it early to avoid the judge’s decision, that is, via jitz.
I agree.
Thats what Diaz should have done the first time and what he should be prepared to do next time since he’s been blessed with a second chance.
But the thing about a jitz game, kinda like relying on the fence for your boxing, is you have to get your opponent to meet you there.
Diaz doesn’t have the wrestling or strength to force Condit into his guard.
So in between keeping the pressure on standing he needs to keep his eyes open for openings to finesse condit down there which should present themselves at least a few times over the course of a 5 round fight.
You know what I just thought?
What if Diaz wins by a sliver in the rematch?
Does Condit get a tie breaker?
(Fat chance of that eh!)
At the very least, Diaz this time around would be trained and coached to expect the evasion and cut off Condit in a way that he should have on Saturday (and his corner told him to but he wasn’t able to do due to frustration).
Thats part of what is making me more open to the idea.
I dont think that Diaz or screeching twerps DESERVE a rematch, but since Condit seems to be game for it without hesitation I think it would at worst be a more refined version of the first fight because they both know each other now.
And even though I enjoyed it and thought is was a good fight, a history and an unfinished storyline on top can make even a mediocre fight twice as dramatic.
So hopefully even the twerps should be satisfied.
(Fat chance of that eh.)
If this were about “The UFC not getting what it wanted”, Dana probably wouldn’t have been saying over and over in the press conference and interviews afterwards that he had Condit winning.
It’s likely them listening to the outcry from whiny Diaz supporters, and I think that’s probably a mistake, but on the other hand GSP is gonna be out for a pretty long while and I think they wanted to book another interim title fight in the meantime. Condit/Diaz will sell as well as anything else they could have booked, and they’re more likely to get Condit to agree to it.
“It’s likely them listening to the outcry from whiny Diaz supporters,…”
Thats exactly what it was, nothing more and nothing less.
Only Dana getting his information and forming his ideas through twitter, which is about as balanced as getting your information and forming your ideas at a klan rally.
Whenever the rematch does take place, I won’t be supporting it. This is a total bs move by the UFC and it sickens me. Condit schooled Diaz period, he should go back to the line and earn his title shot but instead he gets the BJ treated and given an immediate rematch.
Screw that i’ve been pretty unhappy about alot of the stuff the UFC has been doing as of late with their match making and decisions. So I guess i’ll have to draw the line somewhere and it starts with Condit-Diaz 2. Honestly i’m really starting to get more and more frustrated by alot of their decisions of late and it’s making me rethink about alot of my support towards them.
Dude, relax a little.
Condit DID NOT school Diaz and an insinuation like that is plain underground-forum-worthy. Condit won a close fight. He also looked a bit embarrassing by excessive jogging, but that’s besides the point.
It’s not a BS move by the UFC. C’mon, UFC is a business plain and simple and always has been. It’s a money making move for the UFC, for Condit and for Diaz. It’s a no brainer.
I am eagerly anticipating the rematch. I enjoyed the first one a lot. Less Condit jogging would have made it better but overall, I enjoyed the fight.
It’s a pretty clear bs move and one of many by the UFC towards Condit. To me I didn’t see anything close about that fight Condit won it pretty clearly and i’m baffled by the idea of it being a controversial decision in anyway.
The only reason this rematch is happening is because Dana is in love with Nick Diaz and wants him to face GSP. That’s bs to me, mma should be about the best fighting the best and earning their title shots. Diaz got his and lost, he needs to work back up for another one you don’t just give him a second shot because his fanboys are sore about the decision.
That is about the same caliber of whining as the Diaz fans who said they wouldn’t be watching/supporting mma after the decision.
Condit did not “school” Diaz.
Diaz did not get robbed of a clear cut decision.
This was a close competitive fight, with the outcome dependent on how you define “octagon control” and the value you assign to Condit’s leg kicks.
Love him or hate him, Diaz seems to have the power to instill a special kind of irrationality in fans. Kudos to Condit for accepting a rematch.
I was pissed that I spent $60 to watch Condit make a mockery of the fight game. I was hoping the Pride ref would jump in there and show Condit the yellow card. The judges have to be held accountable as well for not giving more credit to Diaz for pushing forward and controlling the center of the cage. I watched the fight with 8 other people, 6 of whom are new to UFC, and all of them thought that Diaz won. All the newbies to MMA thought the UFC sucked after the PPV was over. I hope Diaz wins the rematch because GSP VS Condit is not going to sell as a PPV.
On a side note, the UFC needs to cut down on the PPVs. They are taking the boxing approach of lame undercard bouts and a single main event.
At what point would he have been shown a yellow card? He was active the entire fight.
He just didn’t fight stupid.
I personally hate how the UFC won’t just give guys baseball bats and have them fixed in one place a foot away from each other. MMA’s changed, man.
His name is Takayama, chances are he likes “skilled” fights like Takayama Vs Frye.
Sure, we all like to gather around to watch men beat the hell out of each other in their underwear in a cage.
But some of are just classier than others.
“I watched the fight with 8 other people, 6 of whom are new to UFC, and all of them thought that Diaz won. All the newbies to MMA thought the UFC sucked after the PPV was over.”
So…..everyone you hung out with, in the same vicinity as one another, thought Nick Diaz clearly won the fight? So, everyone agreed with each other, no questions asked? Yeah, have you ever hear the term “echo chamber”? Look it up.
And it hardly matters what SIX n00bs thought, because I bet 1.)they don’t know the intricacies of the fight game (not their faults really) and 2.)they were more than likely influenced by your and your other buddies who are fans of MMA opinions of the fight. Why do you think lynch mobs, hometown cheering, dictatorships, cults, ect. exist? Someone (or many) influencing others whether they are right or wrong.
Anytime someone ever mentions any of the following “with non-fans, at the bar, with new fans, with my homies” etc. I don’t give credence to it.
frontrowbrian from The UG….. Who has broken some good news stories these past few weeks… Along with Diaz/Condit 2 being a go…. Which was later confirmed by multiple news outlets….
That Diaz/Condit 2 won’t happen, and it has something to do with Nick Diaz.
Perhaps he got scared homie….
My guess is that Nick Diaz got busted for mj….
I’ve heard (from a decent source) that he tested positive for weed.
Who knows? We’ll see.
2nd time being caught for it would probably mean a year suspension.
He has a self destructive personality. When things are going good for him, he finds a way to screw it up.
And weed clears out of your system rather quickly from what I read. So this has to almost be intentional.
I’m all for weed being legal throughout the US. But for competition, it shouldn’t be in a fighters system.
Weed does not clear out of your system rather quickly. Even for a professional athlete with low fat levels. It especially stays longer when you smoke a lot of it.
Sad part is he should just be allowed to use it. He’s got the prescription.
Apparently steroids are the only ok thing with a note though.
You can’t have painkillers or alcohol either. It’s not like pot is somehow singled out.
False. If you have the prescription for painkillers you are good to go. Alcohol would be a bad comparison considering it gets out of your system in less than 24 hours.
Marijuana can stay in your system for a month, and in some cases more. So in theory you can be feeling zero effects from the drug for more than a week, and still fail for the substance.
On top of that you can have a prescription for it, and still fail because somebody is stupid enough to classify being high as an advantage.
Should be allowed to fight with weed in his system? I don’t think so. The fewest amount of drugs should be in an athletes system before a fight. It should be a banned substance.
The issue here is not weed. It is Nick Diaz. Let’s say chocolate chip cookies were a banned substance before a fight. Guaranteed Diaz, who is a self proclaimed food nut, would eat them right before a fight. He’s pressing the self destruct button. That is the problem. He will always find a way to bring himself down….
I’ve heard the opposite, where the better your metabolism is the faster THC would go out compared to a person with slow metabolism. But I don’t know.
Regardless, when Diaz tested positive for the Gomi fight, he had so much marijuana in his system they were convinced he was smoking it prior to the fight. So maybe they go by amount, since if he stopped a month out from the fight it would be way less than if he got high the night before.
People are allowed to fight with any sort of number of supplements in their system. They are allowed to fight with excess testosterone in their system with a doctors note (as long as they come in close enough to legal levels). They are allowed to use painkillers with a prescription. I see no problem with somebody using a non performance enhancing drug like marijuana.
45 I completely agree the main problem here is Nick, and his lack of control. But to play devils advocate, if a guy has a prescription for something, he should be allowed to use it. No matter what state your in.
Mark: That is correct. However, the main part of that fact is it reacts to everyone differently. THC is stored in your fat cells, so naturally if you are in better shape with a higher metabolism rate in theory it should be removed from your system quicker. It just differs from person to person. I was in ADS twice before I was 18, and could pass a piss test quite easily by drinking a gallon of water in the hours leading up to the test. However, Nick could be totally different and not be able to release/mask the thc as easily.
“Regardless, when Diaz tested positive for the Gomi fight, he had so much marijuana in his system they were convinced he was smoking it prior to the fight. So maybe they go by amount, since if he stopped a month out from the fight it would be way less than if he got high the night before.”
I could definitely go along with this point if it wasn’t for two factors. One, I was in the system at an early age so I’m very educated on how the testing for drugs goes. The main part of how thc exits your system is how a single person’s body reacts to it. You could take two people that are the exact same size with the exact same fat content, and one could get it out of their system twice as fast. So the fact that it was high (no pun intended) in his system, could just as easily mean he got stoned the night before or a few days prior.
The second is the commissions obvious lack of information/education on weed. Kizer (or whoever it was) came out and said he thought the punches Gomi was hitting Diaz with were having no effect because Diaz was high. How retarded do you have to be to come to that conclusion. Had he never seen Diaz fight before that? Does he believe the old propaganda videos that say you can’t feel pain on weed?
To me it just showed the obvious lack of thought/intelligent opinion on the subject.
As a disclaimer, I’m pretty much a straight edger outside of occasionally drinking a beer socially, so I can’t really debate you.
But according to reports they have a limit of a 15 reading and Diaz had a 175 reading. Granted, like you said, it could just be because he uses marijuana so often it’s stored up to an enormous degree in his body even if he abstains from use. I don’t know.
But Tony Alamo or Keith Kizer (don’t remember which) also said Diaz acted shiftier about taking the urine test than even guys like Kevin “Inhuman Piss” Randleman and other guys who knew they were guilty. So it wasn’t just “He couldn’t have taken that beating without being high”, it was the high reading and the way he was acting when they presented him with an inspector to watch him give the sample. But then again since Diaz is a general weirdo, maybe it’s just Nick being Nick, he was more mad about another man seeing his Little Nick giving the sample, he stopped smoking marijuana 2 weeks out, and this was backed up THC.
As Kizer has pointed out…. Weed can numb you when taking punches. And he pointed out that fighters aren’t allowed cortisone shots either because they don’t want them not feeling punches.
The legality has nothing to do with this discussion. There are many legal items that are not allowed.
“As Kizer has pointed out…. Weed can numb you when taking punches.”
Which is an absolutely ridiculous “point”.
“And he pointed out that fighters aren’t allowed cortisone shots either because they don’t want them not feeling punches.”
An even more ridiculous statement. Cortisone is used as an anti-inflammatory in joints, tendons, bursas, etc. (typically the knee, elbow, shoulder)…it’s not some magic pain killer, in fact it’s not a pain medication at all, the only “pain killing effect” it offers is that pain from inflammation is decreased. This is aside from the point that it is a local treatment that needs to be injected directly into the site – it’s not like you just shoot it up and magically are impervious to pain.
Completely asinine – why are you blathering these flagrantly false statements, 45?
No, it’s not a ridiculous point about weed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_drugs_banned_from_the_Olympics#Narcotics_and_cannabinoids
It’s banned from the Olympics. You think it’s banned just because of the social stigma of it? It’s dangerous for athletes to be on it while competing.
HAHAHA…Go back to getting your facts from reefer madness.
“Weed numbs the pain of punches!”, “It’s dangerous for athletes to be competing on weed!”, “Think of the children! You will become an insane killer!”
Where’s the lolcatz when you need them!? First of all he wasn’t even on weed during the fight – the rumor is that he failed his PRE-fight test. Weed has basically the same length of effect as alcohol, so to make the argument that Kizer has a point b/c they nailed someone for being on weed before the fight and it’s illegal to be on it during the fight b/c it puts you in harms way is asinine and makes no sense.
Keep changing the goal posts of your argument though and making ill-informed statements to back yourself up. You’ve already shown you have no understanding of the topic, once again, but will boldly make ridiculous statements to prop up your argument…it’s funny you’re just the type of guy that can’t say – hey I was misinformed and/or wrong on this point, my bad! You just dig in, change the goalposts and continue to cling to foolish talking points.
Excuse me while I go inject cortisone to make sure I don’t feel any punches. ha-ha-ha.
Good call Kreskin, you nailed it.
That’s exaggerating it a bit. If you want to put marijuana in the same category of a painkiller, you would have to be on so much of it you can’t function much less fight to not know you’re being punched in the face. James Irvin was on heavy amounts of prescription painkillers, which have a stronger pain blocking ability than marijuana does. Did it stop him from being beaten down by Anderson Silva? No. Nobody at top level is going to want out of a fight because punches hurt too bad, they’ve got to be knocked loopy until they can’t defend themselves. It might help you cope with a submission better, but strikes, no.
The cortisone shot ban is to stop people from taking too much damage in a submission, not strikes. Like if I had a guy in a kneebar and he had a cortisone shot he might not realize his knee is about to be torn if the joint was a little numbed. But he’d know if I gave him leg kicks.
If you want to fight on a drug where you don’t realize you’re being injured, apparently PCP does this. And oddly enough no fighters try to use it.
Hear, hear. Said much of the same above. The cortisone statement is particularly uninformed and ridiculous…
How do you think they sell the idea of medical weed? They sell it on the fact that it helps with anxiety and reducing the pain instead of taking pills.
Fuck, it helps people with MS cope with their symptoms…. But somehow it’s not helping a fighter feel less of a strike?And if you get a cortisone shot in your hand…. It’s extremely dangerous because you can have a broken hand and won’t feel it.
It depends on where the injury is that will make it dangerous for striking vs. grappling.
“
Fuck, it helps people with MS cope with their symptoms…. But somehow it’s not helping a fighter feel less of a strike?”No because it’s not the same thing. Marijuana in general is prescribed for three things; Chronic illnesses, anxiety issues, and diseases resulted in hunger loss.
The specific pain killing properties of it do not compare to certain prescription drugs, that fighters guy passes on. Not to mention shit shows like TRT.
“And if you get a cortisone shot in your hand…. It’s extremely dangerous because you can have a broken hand and won’t feel it.”
That’s why its ridiculous. They shouldn’t even be mentioned in the same category.
This argument is so off base on all points 45. Stop talking about things you have no knowledge or are badly misinformed on and listen to people that do know what they’re talking about.
1. As edub pointed out the effects and use of weed for chronic illnesses ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than using it as an advantage to not feel punches. This is a fking RETARDED talking point, so insanely ridiculous. Not to mention that smoking weed a week or a day BEFORE the fight will not give you painkilling effects DURING the fight. Are you completely off your meds?
2. Nice goal post change – no one said cortisone wasn’t dangerous or banned because it is dangerous to the athlete because they could inject it in their knee, hand, foot, elbow and get hurt in a fight b/c they aren’t feeling their body’s natural response.
YOU said “And he pointed out that fighters aren’t allowed cortisone shots either because they don’t want them not feeling punches.”
And that’s what is completely foolish, stupid and hilariously misinformed. But don’t stop saying it to help prove your point!
He will be looking for extra money for taking the fight, as I would assume he knows Condit is getting a big bonus.
Stop feeding the troll
[…] – UFC Message: Please Forget the outcome of Condit/Diaz I (Fight Opinion) […]
[…] our friend Zach Arnold at FightOpinion.com opined, we’re basically being asked to forget the outcome of the first fight. But now that the […]
Zach Arnold nailed it, best piece yet on this soap opera..beautiful analogy with the N.J. Devils. What i want to know, if Diaz was to somehow win a re-match,(highly unlikely) would Condit then get another re-match?
Yeah, this was a shameful idea for Zuffa to go with. Even if they gave Diaz a can to fight, claimed GSP was going to be out too long and Diaz could fight Condit again if he beat the can, that would be better than the immediate rematch. It was nowhere near a fight in doubt, it was just a fight lots of people disliked. If they’re going to go this route they might as well start rigging judging scores. And this is coming from a guy who really wanted to see GSP/Diaz. It is not worth doing this.
But I’m not going to buy the marijuana suspension until someone major reports it. We’ve heard all kinds of wacky stuff form “This guy I know whose brother is the cousin of the janitor at the Athletic Commission office said he thought that’s what he heard.” I’m not saying it isn’t true, it very well could be because Diaz is an idiot. But until then, for all we know, he could be injured or even still holding on to being retired.
diaz won the first two rounds and the fifth decicisevly. he mightve got that third one. condit got the fourth. but diaz was clearly the dominant fighter throughout the whole fight. it sucks that it had to go to the judges and they messed this one up, but it happens this scoring system is flawed. a rematch is really the only thing to do in this situation, if they don’t do a rematch no one will ever take condit or even gsp really seriously as the champ because everyone will know it’s fake because diaz really won. i’m excited i hope it happens, diaz will push harder to get the finish in the second fight, he’ll probably submit him. condit doesn’t have any real way he can beat diaz, and i don’t think a gameplan of waiting out the clock and hoping for a decision can work twice in a row, especially against a guy as dangerous as diaz. hopefully the ufc doesn’t mess this one up.
Every major website, 3 judges, Dana White, and most importantly me…. All had it for Condit. Nice try though….
45, you of all people should never talk about who mma media members picked. Do you not see how hypocritical that is? Nobody ever bashes the mma media than you do, and now you want to use them as a bastion of credibility? GTFO of here. You can’t have it both ways. Dana White had Diaz winning the first two and Condit last 3. 5th round was very close from what I have heard (I still haven’t seen it), with Diaz taking Condit’s back and apparently coming fairly close to an armbar. So to act like this was some clear cut decision is ridiculous. Shut your trolling mouth. Also, please stop posting under your alias of RST.
Zach, why do posts on this site disappear all the time?
Here is a video of Joe Rogan talking about how he thinks Diaz won:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkgFrgl3uHs&feature=player_embedded
Rogan has a very poor track record of scoring fights. And even he admits he scored it for Condit at first showing.
Every non Diaz fans opinion I have seen of this fight was that it was close but they scored it for Condit.
It was an easy decision to make. Even the numbers back up Condit winning.
You just pissed off because you have been talking up Diaz for over a year…. And he just lost to one of his more bearable opponents. He is even in more trouble when he faces the wrestlers of the division.
The reality is that Diaz is a borderline Top 10 guy who has a foul mouth to fool people into thinking he would be better.
GSP, Condit, Fitch, Ellenberger, Sanchez, Koscheck, Hendrick, MacDonald would all beat him. It’s 50/50 for him from the next 5 or so down.
I’ll back 45 on this one: he may be hypocritical for trashing FightMetric and the media then using them as his example of why he is right, not to mention his old “You can’t judge a fight unless you see it live in person” talking point. But 98% of people who saw the fight give it to Condit. They might not like how he won it, but he won it. Even if this is judged under PRIDE’s rules he still won it. Round 5 was Condit’s round. He outstruck Diaz, was not taken down by Diaz and was not in a serious submission. So it’s 3-2 then from what you already said.
And don’t compare him to RST. 45 can be shrill and annoying, but RST is just a pure troll with no redeeming qualities. And awful grammar.
yeah a bunch of people thought diaz won and some people thought condit won too, duh. that’s like why it’s being talked about so much…and that’s why dana tweeted about a rematch… because it’s controversial that condit was given the decision… and if they fought again nick would be ready for condits strategy of waiting for time to run out and hoping for a decision so it’s unlikely it would work again. condit would be forced into actually fighting and judging by how easily nick was dominating that first fight the second would probably be a cakewalk for him. nick would probably just take it by submission judging by how quickly and easily he took condit down and got his back on the ground.
Joe Rogan saying he thought Diaz won: http://www.mmaconvert.com/2012/02/08/joe-rogan-weighs-in-on-nick-diaz-vs-carlos-condit/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+mmaconvert+%28MMAConvert%29
[…] What Kind of Message is the UFC Sending with Their Treatment of Nick Diaz-Carlos Condit? (FightOpinion.com) […]
Well it’s now official Nick Diaz got busted for weed again and once again the UFC ducks a major bullet. Hopefully this will smarten Dana and company about him, because you can’t put all your backing on a guy as unreliable as Nick. Now that he’s out of the title picture the UFC can focus on Condit a guy who unlike Diaz can actually be trusted to hold up his end of the deal. Now we can put away the Nick Diaz nonsense and worry about the guys at WW that actually matter and aren’t idiots in and out of the cage.
He will be out of the title picture for 18 months. Since this is his 2nd strike with weed, they are likely going to give him a year. And then he will need a fight before he can even think about getting a title shot.
I couldn’t be happier. No pointless rematch AND all of the Diaz fans are pissed off.
Have you noticed how many of the Strikeforce fighters are getting caught with illegal substances now that they are fighting in testing states more often? Cyborg, Lawal, & Diaz. And Overeem literally avoided a random test. It is now obvious that the Strikeforce Champions had a serious drug problem. I bet it’s the same in Bellator right now too due to them going to casinos so often.
Ridiculous as usual. 🙂
Chael Sonnen, Sean Sherk, Hermes Franca, Chris Leben x2, Nate Marquardt, Thiago Silva, Stephan Bonnar, Vinicius Quieroz, Lesnar getting caught with HGH in the trunk of his car, Shane Carwin showing up on the distribution list of a company raided for selling steroids and HGH to pro athletes…it’s now obvious the UFC has a serious drug problem!
And lol about them now just starting to fight in testing states more often. They literally fight 80% of their cards in CA. Other popular places include Nevada, Texas, Washington, Illinois and Ohio – yeah look at these carneys fighting all over indian reserves and riverboats!
Much like your gloating on the UFC fighters who directly signed beating the UFC fighters who indirectly signed, you are missing the big picture: Zuffa owns them now.
So if there has been a drug problem since the purchase, it is Zuffa’s drug problem. And last time I checked, the test failures weren’t this constant for Strikeforce until the Zuffa purchase. Not that that is the reason, but if you’re trying to claim they were the Wild Wild West like PRIDE before Zuffa stepped in, then that’s ridiculous since they were governed by the same commissions.
Well, once again Diaz just does whatever he feels like doing.
Ignoring even simple yet important requirements for his job.
I dont have anything against weed (dont care for it either), but its important because he gets suspended for 6 months again.
Just to smoke pot until the last second.
It only takes about a month to get that out of your system, but he speaks freely about his unique skill for sweating it out in 10 days.
He’s fun to watch fight and a genuine draw on any card, but how many times does he have to prove that he just isn’t ready for the responsibility of holding a belt.
He complains and quits the sport because he cant have the belt, and yet continues to carelessly not deserve it.
from all peer reviewed studies i’ve read, Marijuana is a mild vasilodator (which means it dilates blood vessels) and has a similar effect for fighters as many post workout energy drink/supplements.
But as it doesn’t include the hundreds of weird chemicals that seem to get lots of fighters in trouble (Cyborg, King Mo, for example) it should be cleared for use as a natural supplement…
45 Huddle said:
You nicely entirely avoid addressing how it is not hypocritical to bash the mma media constantly on one hand, and then use them as a fair measure on the other hand. Which one is it? Are they competent or incompetent?
You are now saying that because Joe Rogan called the fight for Condit when he wasn’t watching it as a judge, that his opinion that Diaz won when Rogan watched AS a judge is rendered less credible? Jesus you are dense.
I am not pissed Condit won; I have enjoyed watching him since his WEC days. Your arguments on the subject are just so hypocritical and weak though.
You say “it was close” then say “it was an easy decision”. Which one is it?
Your idea that every wrestler would beat Diaz is quite outdated. You can’t judge how good he is now on how he was in 2006 any more than you can judge Chuck Liddell now on how good he was in 2006. Diaz is much physically stronger now, a better boxer now, and has been training with Jake Shields for the last 5 years; even the most ardent Diaz-haters would have to admit those facts make him a much tougher opponent now than he was then.
What is Rogan’s poor track record btw? Do you have a 100 fight list of fights that Rogan has scored and you disagree with 50 of them, or do you disagree with 1 or 2 of his picks? If the latter (and I assume it is the latter because you certainly have not assembled a list of 100 Rogan decisions), then you can’t really say he has a poor track record of scoring fights. This is just you making something up and hoping you won’t be called out on it.
For all you Diaz supporters out there and amature MMA fans I just have a couple things to say:
Diaz couldn’t finish the fight and left it in the hands of the judges. He should have knocked him out if he wanted to win but he couldn’t even keep up with Condits game and lost fair and square. Too bad for him. He’s one of the toughest babys I’ve ever seen. But he’s still a whiner.
#2 I hope that blunt he smoked before he tested was good weed. Because its going to be the most expensive weed he ever smoked now. He couldn’t even wait till after the fight to get high. Seriously? Dumbass should be hisnew nickname. Diaz is a great fighter and Condit is a great fighter, Condit won and deserves to be recognized so suck it up.